Official Luthiers Forum!

Last night I went on a quotation call. The Music prof. at one of our local colleges wants to commission a classical. She has been shopping for many years for a hand crafted instrument. and has bought two Penmentel's stock models, one biult in 63 and one built in 90. While she is happy with one of them she is disappointed in the other. Anyway as the story goes she wants BRW. Sitka BC top.

My dilemma is I have only built 2 classical guitars both were LMI kits. There is nothing in the mechanical and structural side that bothers me but not having tuned but two classical tops I am not as sure of what I am doing. This client is a super player. I know I can pull off the physical end of the build with no issues. So my question is do I accept this order knowing I have limited experience or do I refer her to a more experienced classical builder.

She pick me because on of her after hour students owns one of my student model steel strings and she was impressed with the build and tone of the guitar. I did explain to her that I was limited in Classical building experience, but she seemed unconcerned.

I really want this commission and I really want to break into the classical market a bit. but I can not offer the expertise that I can on the steel string side.

So take it or refer it?

Oh by the way this is a money is nearly no object job.MichaelP38996.6402314815

Sorry Bud but you are the only one who can answer that I know what my answer would be.

_________________
Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

What just for curiosity sake

Take it.
You have been honest and up front.

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I think you answered it already, a couple of times! She has heard one of your guitars, likes what she hears. You will be using your same senses to build a classical just a bit different structure. Hey, how else do you learn?

Good Luck on the build Michael

Shane

_________________
Canada

Well, as John said, you're the only one who can answer that, BUT...
In my estimation, the person seems willing to give one of your instruments a shot, based on what they've seen from one of your steel string builds. If you're concerned with whether this person will like it or not, give them the option of taking it and if they don't like it, they can return it for a full refund. Consult with all the great classical builders here on the OLF, and others that you may know through ASIA or GAL etc. I would think that you could build something that is exceptional if you really try.
In your position, I would take a shot at it, and see how it goes.
I remember a friend of mine telling me about how he started his own business. He had an MBA, and was very learned in the field of finance. He started out with very few clients, but would act as if he had dozens. People automatically assumed that he really knew what he was doing and knew that a number of other people were trusting in his guidance for their retirement investments. In truth, he had a small handfull of customers the first couple of years, but then he was rolling along gaining new clients all the time, and never looked back. He built a successful business. He never lied about the number of clients he had, but simply took steps to bolster the confidence of his prospective clients.
You're doing much the same...you're being honest, they've seen your work, and have confidence that you can produce the goods. This is an opportunity to stretch yourself. Back it with a satisfaction guarantee, and you're on your way.

Don Williams38996.6530324074

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[quote]I did explain to her that I was limited in Classical building experience, but she seemed unconcerned.[/quote]

Well'p, there you go!!!!

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Michael,

Don's suggestion of a money back guarantee is a good one. If not completely satisfied then return it for a refund. The only grey area is that if it has a lot of custom woods and specs it may reduce your marketablility of the guitar later.
I say accept the commission based on this and other people's suggestions and if you need some technical support or advice along the way you know where to find me.
Good luck!

With your skills at steel string building and from what I have seen here,I think you could build a fine classical.I would say Go for it.

_________________
Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

If I take it Robbie, I most certainly will be in yours and McBroom's back pocket a lot

Michael, my friend, even with your "inexperience," I'd wager that you'd build a fine sounding and fine looking classical guitar. I think your conscience can rest assured, but if you want to take some of the risk yourself, I can see two options. The first, as Don said, offer the "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back" deal; or, second, build it at a substantially reduced price. I'd suggest the first, 'cause I think she'll be happy with it.

You might find that you're quite good at this, and open up a very satisfying market where the players are smart and dedicated.

*Rob Schneider impression*   You can do it!

_________________
Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

Michael

AS you know I did one recently and went through the same dilemma as you, in the end I took it on and found I really enjoyed it, and my customer was and still is delighted by the guitar, the same principles apply as with a steel string, I was lucky to have the assistance of Colin and the classical guys here.

but I'd say go for it, I'm sure you will pull it off.

Michael;
Do it!
The order will make you become a classical maker-WHY- because you'll have to belly up to the bar and do all the research and soul searching and learn the best way for you to make guitar!
AND your client will get a great guitar in the process!
Go For IT!
Mike Collins

_________________
Mike Collins

Michael,

You've been as open and honest as anyone could be in this circumstance, so she's going into it with eyes open.

Being a super player and a professor of music, she has most likely played many guitars over the years and maybe in the guitar you built, she sees or hears in it something she really likes, perhaps something even you don't see. Some teachers are like that, especially a good teacher of music.

And if in talking about a guitar for her, you can discuss the issues she has with the one she doesn't like ,then all the better.

Keep us posted!

_________________
now known around here as Pat Foster
_________________
http://www.patfosterguitars.com

TAKE IT!!
I'm sure there are plenty here that can help if you need it!!

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Gulp! Well it looks like I build classicals too

Michael,

I must concur with everyone else and say you should take the commission. I do however think that you should charge a fair price. You should be adequately rewarded for you time and expertise. The client is an experienced musician with knowledge of guitars and has based her commission on the quality your previous work. I am sure that she appreciated you honesty regarding your experience building classicals but she probably also recognizes that the skills and the craftsmanship required are what is important. Take the commission and move forward.

Philip

_________________
aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

I would not take the job unless you intend to build more classical instruments. Your guitar will probably sound good to the average steel string player.
I suspect most classical players are more particular about tone and generally know more about what they want in terms of tone than steel string players. Talk to classical players about tone and dynamics and compare that to how steel string players describe their instruments. There is, generally speaking, a big difference with the classical players using more sophisticated language and imagery in their descriptions. They tend to know their instruments better.
If this buyer is a gifted player, she is likely going to be specific about tone in ways that you, based on your experience, can not deliver.

OK - I said that because I'm hoping to give you some balance in the responses here. I always believe that if you don't hear and understand both sides, you can not make a good decision. What ever you decide I wish you great succes.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

You have winter classes going on? Do ya got space for one more?

Sure! If you can spare the time we start about the 2nd week of January and run for about 16 weeks.

You've asked yourself all the right questions and I believe you may have allready accepted this commission in your heart...now just get past the cerebral thing

i think you know I was kiding but I truly would love to if I could get away

GO FOR IT MICHAEL!!!!

In French, we have a saying: To ask a question is sometimes answering it!

I think you have all the answers already my good friend, you just needed a gentle tap on your shoulder from the family, well you got it Michael and i KNOW you can do it!

Besides, you already know that the classical pros are right here with you to help with any issues, should there be any so give that Lady what she wants Coach!

Your fan Serge

Michael, I would quote her a date that is three months longer than you think you need, this will give you a chance to fix mistakes, and redo anything you're not fully satisified as you go through the build.

This thought's way out there but...You could charge her full price, and build two guitars, using one as a learning tool. That guitar would only take half the time because you could skip the rosette, and the binding, and the finish etc but learn about the differences in voicing, action, etc. Of course I wouldn't use BRW on that one!

_________________
David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."